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youhideastar · 4 months ago

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WujiWatch: CQL Rewatch Episode 26

I see a fair amount of meta (and AO3 comments) treating CQL/The Untamed like the Diet Coke version of MDZS, and the reason given is often “CQL is less morally complex.” Why? “Because Wei Wuxian’s actions are more morally justified there.”

What this episode brings home to me is that that chain of logic... just doesn’t follow. Because Wei Wuxian spends much of the story in opposition to other sympathetic characters, the story's moral complexity is in significant part a zero-sum game: if Wei Wuxian becomes less morally crunchy, then the people opposing him—a group that includes, at various times, sympathetic characters like Lan Xichen, Nie Mingjue, Jiang Cheng, late-stage Jin Zixuan, and, most of all, Lan Wangji—necessarily become more morally crunchy. The more obviously virtuous Wei Wuxian’s goals are, the more morally troubling it is for those other characters to oppose those goals.

The Qiongqi Dao rescue in this episode is perhaps the best example of this. Wei Wuxian shows up, terrifies some guards, turns Wen Ning into an undead slave without his consent and over his next-of-kin’s objection, uses Wen Ning to slaughter those same guards and others, without inquiring as to who is guilty and who might not be, then loads a subset of the surviving Wens onto stolen horses and makes a break for it. This is already pretty morally crunchy, but. Unlike in the novel, we later find out from Jiang Cheng that the surviving Wens are "the young, the old, and the weak," and are implied to be partly or mostly noncombatants. So the means are repugnant, but the end is unquestionably good. He is trying to get vulnerable, traumatized civilians to safety – away from the people who tortured and murdered them with impunity.

And then Lan Wangji shows up with his stylish umbrella and tries to stop him.

Yeah. Lan Wangji, hero of the common people, stands there in the rain before the fleeing refugees. He sees Wen Qing, who helped him when he was held captive by Wen Chao, and Wen Ning, who gave Wei Wuxian the medicine that healed his leg in Xuanwu Cave. He sees the old people, obvious noncombatants; he sees A-Yuan. An innocent child.

And he says, Wei Ying, stop. Don't do this. Come back with me. The unavoidable corollary of which is: Wei Ying. Let these people die.

It is, I think, his lowest moment of the whole series. (And one that doesn’t exist in the novel, where this confrontation never happens.) If this is the novel, and many of these people are plainly former enemy combatants, you can perhaps excuse it, at least a little. They arguably don’t need Wei Wuxian’s protection to survive, and they arguably don’t deserve his protection—not as much, anyway. But in the drama, there’s no argument: this is Lan Wangji putting his orthodoxy and his feelings for Wei Wuxian above what’s right. He would trade those 50 innocent lives for Wei Wuxian’s—he would do it in a heartbeat.

Sometimes I wonder whether that’s what really bothers some of the folks who say they don’t like CQL on moral complexity grounds; not a lack of moral complexity, but the fact that the moral complexity in CQL attaches to the “wrong” character(s).

#the untamed #cql #lan wangji #meta #wujiwatch #cql meta

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piosplayhouse · 1 year ago

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Saw this fantastic little apple art on twitter and was shocked to see op's follow-up tweet about her being described as spotted in the novel, so I went to go check my copy of seven seas vol 1 and! I'll be damned!!! They say she's a spotted donkey!!!

Anxious to find a steed, as [Wei Wuxian] passed by a courtyard, he noticed a spotted donkey tied next to a large millstone, chewing something in its mouth. (Book 1, pg. 58)

This isn't just a one off thing either-- for her next 3 or so descriptions they continue to refer to her (perhaps superfluously) as "the spotted donkey". I was sure that I would've remembered this when I did my little apple donkey breed deep dive a while back, or would've at least come across it when searching Baidu, so I searched for a rip of the exiled rebels fantranslation to check if I had been misremembering this whole time and lo and behold:

He was in a hurry to find a mount, as he passed a courtyard and saw a big millstone inside. A donkey was tied to its handle, chewing on its mouth.

No mention of spots? No translation will be perfect, of course, and both exr and seven seas have extremely dubious reputations regarding their accuracy, but a spotted donkey seems like too distinct of a description to emphasize when every other plot beat and description carries between the two translations. So where did the spots come from?? A mistranslation??? A stray mxtx late edit emerging from a more final published version??

Then after typing all that out I had the sudden confused theory. Are they referring to the points of a donkey as spotting? For reference, spotting is the term given to a specific dominant homozygous lethal equine gene that causes, well. Spotting. On the other hand, the white markings seen on many primitive donkey breeds are known as points, occuring around the eyes, muzzle, and belly. The latter markings would be consistent with little apple's depiction in cql as well as in several other pieces of official art, but no matter how I look at it it doesn't seem intuitive to call the donkeys on the right "spotted".

I struggled for a while to find a copy of the original text to look for clarity, but I was unable to find one. If anyone has access to one, please check around the second to last paragraph of chapter 4 to see exactly which words are used to describe this beautiful beast. I need to know for the sake of mdzs equine scholarship.

#mdzs meta #cql meta #little apple #xiao pingguo #mdzs #cql

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jingyi-ma-boi · 8 months ago

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Yunmeng Twin Heroes' complicated dynamics

So, my tags in one of the last posts I reblogged got a little out of hand and were long enough to deserve their own post, cause, even if I was commenting on other people’s meta and headcannons I ended up 'writing' my own. If you click on the link, you'll see that @featherfur's post was all about the post-canon chengxian feels of seeing the changes in each other while not being able to directly participate in each other's lives. Go read that. It's a bit long, but it's worth it. The angst of seeing somebody you love(d) being so similar yet so different from what you remember, and thinking knowing that you do not get to be a part of their lives like you'd want to hits just right.

However, I don't think that level of 'deep yearning to be able to love each other like they once did' is everything there really is. To me, there’d be a point in post-canon where they do feel like that, but they would resent each other often and even feel something akin to hate as well whenever their feelings regarding everything that has happened in canon got too much to bear.

Now, you can go on reading what I think their emotional journey towards reconciliation would be like, or you can just skip to the end, where I’ve put a TLDR. You’ll get the general idea but if you want to dive into the complexity of their feelings, keep reading (please, I’d love for other people to read and discuss this with me, or give their thoughts at least T.T).

We all know how JC feels about everything WWX has done and how he blames him. For all that the fandom pegs him as someone who doesn’t know how to express his feelings other than through anger, he's actually pretty aware of them and lets himself experience them (although not in a healthy way, re: being angry most of the time). Meanwhile, WWX has always been incredibly detached from his emotions —that's why it takes him so long to realize he's been in love with LWJ since their teens— because 1) he's been raised to think that his value lies not on him as a person, but on him as a protector that has to right all his wrongs to everybody around him because of filial duty, life debts, and class differences; and 2) he doesn't think he deserves feeling them, as a result of that.

And although I'm all for the chengxian feels and the fluff of Yungmeng Jiang' bros reconciliation, (really, I love that trope) I don't see it happening organically.

Listen here, I'm talking from personal experience. You can feel enormous amounts of longing, missing the closeness you once had with someone who hurt you deeply, and resent that person at the same time. It seems obvious, but it’s the kind of obvious thing that needs to be reminded. In a situation like this, you can, and will, get bursts of anger at that person for everything they did and everything they didn't do. You hate yourself for missing them because you have all the right to be angry at them, and disapointed and sad, and you shouldn't be missing them nor contemplating the possibility of going back to how things were once. You can be glad to see that they are doing well in their new life and be jealous that it is not you who they're sharing all these new experiences with, while you're watching awkwardly from the sidelines, letting the guilt from the swarm of contradictory emotions eat at you, because at the end of the day it doesn't matter how you feel. What matters is the facts. What you did. What THEY DID.

I see JC going through a mix of less complicated emotions at first. After canon, where he scowls at WWX with anger at first, the underlying pain gains a new companion. A feeling of sadness that drives JC to avoid WWX in the same way that the latter’s pain and guilt drives him to avoid his shidi. WWX, on the other hand, would take the longest time to let himself feel more complex and contradictory emotions. He might even get stuck on that guilt and not let himself feel the anger, disappointment, and resentment towards JC that he has always buried deep inside if things at Cloud Recesses stay the same as ever and he and LWJ isolate themselves from everyone else while LXC withers away in his tormented seclusion.

(Here comes the important reminder that MDZS is full of parallelisms and as such, LWJ and LXC share the same complicated feelings that exist between the Yunmeng bros, even if the details of their relationships are different. I won't go further into the Twin Jades of Lan, cause they deserve their own post, but let it be known that their reconciliation is as unlikely as the Yunmeng Twin Heroes’. They’re totally related. Any advances in one of the pairs would positively reflect on the other and viceversa, that’s why it’s so difficult for them to avoid emotional stagnation.)

The key to WWX getting more in touch with his feelings would be in the changes brought forth by the juniors. LSZ and LJY would work through WWX's façade even better than LWJ does, cause WWX doesn't think them as biased. His two Lan ducklings would charge headlong into his emotional mess through gentle words (LZS) and earth-shattering remarks disguised as snark (LJY), and force help him through the mess of recognizing and sorting out those emotions.

Still, JC and WWX being aware of their feelings is not enough for them to solve things.

However, it might help them all to take a step forward and start acknowledging each other in a better manner. They’d go from having raw, more simple feelings preventing them to even wanting to hear each other’s name, to gradually being able to share the same space amicably. That doesn’t mean that looking at each other in the eyes or feeling each other’s gaze isn’t simply too much because it makes them spiral. This is the point where they’d yearn for this new, happier version of their brother, their emotions getting as complicated as I described at the beginning. But that's the most I can see them achieving on their own because they’re both so stubborn. They’re set in their own ways and it would take a huge external force for them to make the slightest changes (ie. golden-core transfer reveal and the little ducklings intervening to make WWX feel his feelings is what causes changes in their perspective).

Why do I feel like this? Am I allowed to feel this? How can I dare to want this when I can’t even forgive him? How could I ever forgive him? Would he ever forgive me? How is it possible that I still love him so much? Do I even deserve to have that with him after everything I did? And what about him? Am I ready to truly forgive him and trust him? Will I ever be? I can’t, I couldn’t even if I wanted to and it hurts SO MUCH! IT HURTS!

IT HURTS!ITHURTSITHURTSITHURTS IHATEHIMIHATEHIMIHATEHIM

WHYDIDHEDODTHAT!?!WHYDIDHEDOTHATTOME?! WHYDIDHENOTDOANYTHING?!

WHY DID HE LEAVE ME?!?!?

…

You see? After everything I’ve laid down, any of them could have this exact internal conflict anytime.

The thing is they are both more alike than they think. JL would see through their bullshit and be so frustrated with it all through the years. Already an adult and experienced sect leader, he’d understand but not completely, because he’d be the first to realize that nothing can compare to what they’ve gone through. And yet, he’d want them to talk and make up because he loves his maternal uncles so much. He won’t admit it to anyone, (LJY, LZS and OYZZ don’t need him to. it’s been years since WWX returned and JL’s already an open book to them), but he wants them to be happy around each other. To not feel so torn apart between them. He’d want an opportunity to have some semblance of the family that could’ve been and he will take any chance, as small as it might be, to achieve that.

Cue the junior-now-adult-quartet shenanigans. They’ve been seeing how every adult they love is miserable to some extent, and now that they’re adults too, they can and will do something about it. Cause hey, if they were able to bulldoze in and force WWX to actually feel his feelings, they can do this too! So now, their new goal is to get these two grown-ass adults to talk. Although technically, WWX is only a few years older, and a great deal more traumatized than them too. They’re aware of it. But they’d rather not think too much about it because they most definitely didn’t cry for hours on end after they got him to talk and started thinking about his life. And they most definitely didn’t attract attention when, weeks later, they finally grasped the scope of everything that their seniors had suffered when they had been even younger than they were at that moment.

LJY and OYZZ would be totally and completely over-invested in this. They’d scheme and help JL trace a plan for how and when to talk to each of them individually to subtly let them know how he felt. LSZ would use his power as heir and acting sect leader to stage the encounter among the three of them, securing LWJ’s reluctant approval after a great deal of convincing. And JL would trigger the conversation with a spontaneous outburst at his two uncles’ ridiculous yearning. They’d probably use a combination of WWX’s inventions and Lan techniques to lock them into a room, and force them to talk and have a truthful heart to heart, and they’d hope that after that, everything would be okay.

A LONG bout of silence later, they’d hear shouting and objects shattering and hitting the floor. They’d hear them fight, without sensing any spiritual or resentful energy of any kind, and LWJ would have to be stopped from dismantling the arrays and talismans in place just so he could go pounce on JC’s throat himself. The blows would soon be replaced with more silence, then soft murmurs. Sobbing. More yelling, and cracked voices. It’d be almost time for waking up the next morning when the arrays disappeared on their own. The doors opening to show the two brothers splayed on the floor next to each other, robes and hair disastrously askew. Holding their forearms over their eyes, barely covering the tear trails and reddened cheeks, their chests would be rising peacefully as they’d finally seem to sleep from exhaustion. LWJ’s eyes would get stuck on the way their fingertips touch ever so slightly. The ducklings don’t say a thing, but they’d totally stare too. JL would be the one to break the silence and tell everyone they should be going to sleep as well (and if LSZ and LJY see JL’s glassy eyes and a lone tear… no, they don’t).

Would that be it? Nope. Haven’t I said already it’s not easy? They’d have started talking and acknowledging that they both want the same thing, but it’s still not enough. They’d have to WORK for it. Hard. They would need to build a support system if they wanted to achieve the relationship they want to have. LWJ would have to start seeing JC as a person, and one that is able to give his Wei Ying the happiness he deserves, now that he’s at it. JC would have to start relying more on the other adults in his live. And it wouldn’t hurt WWX if he expanded his circle to include people other than his husband, his son, his son’s friends, and his undead cinnamon-roll of a friend.

In this way, they would be working on their respective issues to obtain each other’s forgiveness. They would face setbacks on more than one occasion, questioning whether it’s even worthwhile. This is the only way I see them regaining trust in each other.

The two of them mending their relationship without strong external factors would be OOC and unrealistic. It doesn’t matter if you’re going by MDZS or CQL canon. Although if we’re going by CQL canon, I don’t think they would ever go further than the ‘avoiding each other’ stage, and neither would any plot device help them do it. CQL WWX is very tame in the war-crime front and even though he’s just as ‘selflessly’ quick to put himself in harm’s way as in the novel, nobody can blame him for an attack that was clearly planned years before (most of the ‘facts’ stated on the novel turned out to be complete hearsay and/or senseless bullshit, this translates to CQL too even though if the censorship fucked a big part of this by drawing extreme caricatures of everyone). His misdeeds boil down to war crimes of varying moral weight, and not trusting people enough to include them in decisions they should’ve been included in, cause JZX and JYL’s deaths were caused by SMS.

And CQL JC is… not good. His decision to completely ignore the Wens even when he personally knew them and knew they had helped them repeatedly (first encounter in the Dafan Mountain and then, after the fall of Lotus Pier) meant he’s the only character to blatantly disregard a life debt, one he had to the Wen siblings. And on top of that, he still pulls the same shit that novel JC does after WWX returns, which makes him even worse.

Novel JC, on the other hand, took the right decision by not getting involved with the Wens. They were complete strangers, and he couldn’t risk the safety of the sect and the people of Yunmeng. He was powerless against the wishes and whims of the cultivational world cause that's how politics work. You’re forced to choose duty towards your people over your heart.

But let’s get back on track. I’ll make a full post on my view of JC as whole another time. The reason why it would be so complicated and they’d have to work so hard towards mending their relationship is that they would first have to realize that they cannot go back to how things were before. JC would need to recognize that WWX is not to blame for all his misfortunes and he’d have to apologize for all the fucked-up shit he does after WWX’s return. Psychologically torturing his 21-year-old brother with dogs while being a 34 year-old sect leader that has had 13 years to deal with his emotions was a dick-move of the highest category. And so it is the stunt he pulls right before the golden-core reveal at Lotus Pier. Yes, the golden-core transfer was sketchy but made complete sense. Yunmeng Jiang needed a leader and WWX was not fit for the role, not due to a lack of skills, but because it would’ve worked as badly as JGY given how the whole Jianghu cared only about birth status and nothing else.

This doesn’t mean that JC’s evil, WWX is the ultimate child-abuse victim, and that JC should never get close to WWX ever again (I’m looking at you, JC antis, though this whole post is also a call-out to JC apologists, cause he ain’t no innocent snowflake wronged by bad, evil /WWX/YLLZ). It simply means that JC has to claim responsibility. He also needs to see that just like WWX was abused, he and JYL were victims of the same abuse. They both need to come to terms with that fact and know that they had some sort of trauma-bond given that JC’s coping mechanism for enduring the abuse was reflecting that same abusive behavior on WWX. Yes, siblings who grow up abused often abuse each other as well, and/or end up enabling their abusers through a fawn response (this was JYL’s case).

TLDR; I love the idea of these two hot-heads making up and having strong feelings about each other. But the abuse they endured growing up, and the abyss it slowly carved up between them is something they both need to acknowledge and heal from before even considering the idea of mending their relationship. That, and the extend of the wounds they’ve inflicted on each other since WWX returned are things I don’t see them working on unless prompted by external forces. Their relationship is too complicated and nuanced for anything other than that being possible, which means that they wouldn't be able to forgive and trust each other unless some freaking major plot-event forced them to actually talk. That’s why I see their reconciliation as highly unlikely.

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symphonyofsilence · 2 years ago

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Jin Ling & his Xiao Shushu appreciation, 'cause I don't see enough of it.

Remember that Jin Ling avoided LWJ like plague 'cause he was scared of him shitless, to the point that when WWX fake called Hanguang-Jun he ran without even looking back literally seconds after WWX pulled the same trick on him with JC 'cause he didn't want to risk looking back just in case it was actually HGJ, but he stood against Hanguang-Jun AND sect leader Lan when he thought they were invading his Xiao Shushu's room? Only Jiggy's own intervention made him back down.

& IDK maybe the reason Jin Ling was there at that time was that it was the family section. But since Fairy wasn't with him, maybe he was visiting his uncle. & I find it hard to imagine, like, say, WWX visiting Jiang Fengmian or Lan Sizhui visiting Zewu-Jun or the Lan brothers visiting Lan Qiren in the middle of the night in their private chambers unless something very important has happened. I think according to the standards of their time, they must have been very close for this visit to happen.

Running to Xiao Shushu 'cause JiuJiu is angry with him & adorably hiding behind him 'cause Xiao Shushu spoils him.

Defending Xiao Shushu and having a firm belief that whatever he says is for Jin Ling's own good even in the face of his cool uncle after the rush of winning a fight against a group of his all-time bullies.

Still using the affectionate term "Xiao Shushu"even when confronting him about why would he kill his father, begging him to "say something". Give him anything to make it a little bit less painful.

Jiggy wanting to comfort Jin Ling even when he's crying because he just realized that Jiggy has killed his father.

Jin Ling looking so hurt when Jiggy says that JGS didn't let him hold Jin Ling as though he can't imagine a world in which his uncle is not allowed to hold him. Not being allowed to hold JL being a notable part of JGY's villain origin story.

Jiggy pushing Jin Ling out of danger.

Jin Ling screaming for Jiggy to run even after Jiggy took him hostage. And all the other shit.

(It's worth mentioning that in the books, Jiggy doesn't push JL out of danger and JL still screams for him to run, and he still calls him uncle instead of Sect Leader as he does in the show. It's also worth mentioning that the show made some stunning choices in the Guaniyn temple scene regardimg JGY & JL. As half of the things I'm saying about that scene here only happened in the show.)

Jiggy looking so worried as Wen Ning goes towards JL even though he himself has lost an arm and is bleeding to death. And only looking relieved when Wen Ning holds the blade.

Jin Ling being scarred for life here. Oh my poor, poor baby.

With much difficulty, he coughed up some blood. Everyone present heard a crack that was abnormally clear and brutal.

A whimper of a last breath left Jin GuangYao's throat.

Jin Ling's shoulders shivered. He shut his eyes and covered his ears, too afraid to keep watching and listening.

And my favorite scene that emotionally crushed me: Jin Ling remembering when his uncle gave him little Fairy & mourning his uncle & becoming the hero of the nation who finally told Sect Leader Yao to kindly go fuck himself. 'Cause he told him that his uncle was not worth his tears. Jin Ling thinking that they wouldn't dare to tell him such bullshits if his uncle were still alive. Baby Jin Ling feeling so comfortable around the sect leader and the Chief Cultivator that he could break things beside his feet and scream at him, and his uncle just understanding that he needs to leave him alone at that moment, his Xiao Shushu being the only one who could comfort him and make him happy at that point, his Xiao Shushu giving him his spiritual dog & one of his rare actual, geniune smiles that was so warm & kind that Jin Ling remembers to that day, this happy memory being the one that Jin Ling remembers Jiggy with after all the things he learnt in the span of two days. Him acknowledging that Jiggy's love for him was geniune and real & still choosing to continiue to love his uncle despite everything. Him learning that he can't really resent JGY, WWX or WN 'cause though they gave him reasons for that, they also gave him reasons against that. They gave him reasons to love them. And why choose hate when you can...not choose that. Him breaking a cycle of hate that few of the adults of the story did not drown in. And it must mostly be Jiang Yanli's legacy, but it also proves that Jiang Cheng & Jin Guangyao, despite their own numerous issues did something right raising such a child. He feels so secure in their love. And he's right in that feeling.

#jin guangyao #meng yao #jgy #jin ling #jin rulan #the untamed #cql #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #chen qing ling #the grandmaster of demonic cultivation #mxtx #my two cents #cql meta #mdzs meta #xiao shushu rights

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eastofakkala · 2 years ago

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While rewatching The Untamed, it was really interesting to me to see just how hard Jiang Cheng was trying to get his brother back when he’d just returned from the Burial Mounds. And he was trying so many different methods of getting through to him: acting like everything was normal/teasing him, trying to accept what he was like now (to a degree), giving him more affection, just straight-up telling him that everyone was worried about him, asking him question after question, scolding him...only to keep getting shut out, brushed off or lied to. Not blaming Wei Wuxian here, just to be clear! Trauma does Bad Things to people and he needed therapy and a break from the war instead of more war! And not saying Jiang Cheng handled it perfectly, either. He’s also traumatized and is at the moment the youngest Sect Leader of the Four Great Sects and trying to keep everything together. But in hindsight, it makes the straining of their relationship make more sense. It can sometimes hurt more if you feel like you’ve tried everything and it’s all failed.

#The Untamed #CQL Meta #This is E20-21 FWIW #Jiang Cheng #Wei Wuxian #I both love and hate how realistic the Jiang family really is #As a dysfunctional family #Not cartoonishly but realistically #I've felt uncomfortable watching them at times #Untamed Meta

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winterprince601 · 1 year ago

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i'm honestly fine, it's just the way that in episode 1 of the untamed wwx has his first lwj flashback looking at lan sizhui. yeah, he instantly subconsciously recognises the hand lwj has had in raising him. wonder how many times lwj had the exact same flashbacks looking at wen yuan's smile as he brought him up. makes me think about how lwj named him sizhui for his longing for wwx and the first thing wwx does when he sees him is long for lwj. he's playing wangxian like 5 minutes later, by the way. no it's all normal - they poured their love for each other into him. he's *their* child, an amalgamation of the best they saw in each other.

#oops sorry to the asoiaf followers #i promise #that is still the main fandom of this blog #i just need to get this off my chest #the untamed #cql #wei wuxian #wei ying #wwx #lan wangji #lan zhan #wangxian #lan sizhui #lan yuan #wen yuan #cql meta #the untamed meta #ouch

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liberty-or-death · 2 years ago

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Wangxian Poems "Envious of the green hills that have the serenity of one that’s deep in thought, or the white crane that has forgotten the ways of the world and has a tranquil heart. " (Eight Sounds of Ganzhou. Picking Unripened Plums to Accompany My Wine 八声甘州·摘青梅荐酒 by Tang Hui 汤恢)

There are a few poems that possibly inspired Wangxian. All these poems are widely discussed among the chinese fans so I thought I’d share it everyone. Anyway they’re all really lovely 😍😍😍

The “Eight Sounds of Ganzhou. Picking Unripened Plums to Accompany My Wine. 八声甘州·摘青梅荐酒” is a Ci written by Tang Hui 汤恢, poet in the Southern Song Dynasty. The “Eight Songs of Ganzhou” is a specific ci pattern.

摘青梅荐酒，甚残寒，犹怯苎萝衣。

Picking unripened plums to accompany my wine. It was bitterly cold, and filled with worries over my ramie made clothes.

T/N: Ramie was weaved by people who lived in the mountains into clothes.

正柳腴花瘦，绿云冉冉，红雪霏霏。

The willows trees are lush, the flowers are withering; like green clouds flowing slowly, and red snow falling like rain.

隔屋秦筝依约，谁品春词？

The house next door has a date with the qin zheng, just who is singing the songs of springs?

T/N: 春词 - This either means the song of springs or words of love between a couple. The Qin Zheng is a musical instrument

回首繁华梦，流水斜晖。

Look back, the former thriving prosperity was like a dream, like the river that flows way and the setting sun.

寄隐孤山山下，但一瓢饮水，深掩苔扉。

I reside at the bottom of the Mount Lu. But I live frugally as I drink from the ladle and cover the door filled with moss.

T/N: Mount Gu is an island on the West Lake of Hangzhou. Gu 孤 also means Lonely so you could also interpret this as the “lonely mountain”. It’s a popular spots for poets in the Tang and Song Dynasty. Bai Juyi and Su Shi have also written poems about it.

羡青山有思，白鹤忘机。

I’m envious (Xian) of the green hills that have the serenity of one that’s deep in thought, or the white crane that has forgotten the ways of the world and has a tranquil heart. (Wangji)

Wangxian’s names are mentioned here. If you do a quick search with of line, you’ll find numerous chinese wangxian fanworks.

怅年华、不禁搔首，又天涯、弹泪送春归。

The passage of time is worrying, and I can’t help but scratch my head anxiously. My tears send Spring off towards the end of the world again.

销魂远，千山啼鴂，十里荼麋。

At this moment, the Koel sorrowful cries echoes in the mountains. The raspberry flower is blooming everywhere.

T/N: Legend has it that when the Emperor Wang Di entered seclusion and passed on, he died and his soul became a Koel. Hence, when Spring goes and when the Koel cries out sadly, the people of Shu would say “I look forward to the emperor’s soul”, as though the Koel is sending Spring off.

My Analysis

This poem summarises Tang Hui’s feelings. He was staying in seclusion in the West Lake Mountains, but yet he wants to return to live with others, and he yearns for his love of the Northern Song Dynasty. The first part of the poem is about what the poet is doing, and the second part’s about his envy and love for his Dynasty.

Firstly, I was struck by how said sad and how forlorn wangxian’s namesake’s line is. If we break down it down, essentially it describes someone that loves the silence of the musing mountains, and how the crane remains unbothered by the world. It’s such an apt line given that the cultivational world wangxian lived in really hurt them.

The reference of the “plum” and the “white crane” is said to be a reference to Lin Bu 林逋, the Confucian poet who planted plums and raised cranes, and didn’t marry for the rest of his life. His actions gave birth to the idiom “梅妻鹤子 to marry the plum, and raise the cranes for his son”, which means to lead a life of seclusion and attain a tranquil state of mind. (wangxian living in seclusion and living happily ever after? HAHA)

Another thing that struck me was, was this the reason why CQL put a white crane in the wangxian moment? It clearly wasn’t a key point because there’s a clip of Xiao Zhan and Wang Yibo debating about the existence of the crane, of which Xiao Zhan forgot about it, and Wang Yibo insisted it was there. The crane was never in the book, and I always thought it was a mere decorative feature but now I don’t think so 🧐. Perhaps the directors were paying tribute to this poem? And is this the reason why lwj is often painted in white?

Personally, I did find it interesting though, that the c fandom would associate this poem with wangxian, because unlikely the other themes Wangxian has been associated with (Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji’s name respectively), this poem talks about someone who IS in seclusion, who wants to go back to society. Though yes, if you did focus on Wangxian's namesake's line (羡青山有思，白鹤忘机) in isolation, the poet is envious of those who can stay away from the ways of the world. Whereas in the other poems, and in the novel itself, it was clearly the other way around. That’s just my two cents though! Either way, it’s a really pretty poem. 😍

You can check out @fwoopersongs's alternative translation here!

#mdzs #mdzs meta #cql #cql meta #Wangxian #wei wuxian #Lan wangji #Lan Zhan #wei ying

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l-wandering-etranger · 2 years ago

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Relating to my other post, but i headcanon that Jiang Fengmen naming wwx's sword Suibian is peak dad humor. That guy probably giggled himself to bed and be obnoxious about it like "San niang did you get it? did you get it?" Madame yu ignored wwx for the entire week.

#give madame yu a break #he probably has to contain his laughter #eachtime wwx pulls the joke at some conference #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #wei wuxian #the untamed #mdzs fandom #mdzs meta #cql meta #suibian #jiang fengmian #madame yu #kinda obvious #but #i thought of this at 3am

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pumpkinpaix · 4 months ago

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Chapter Spotlight 4:

"Iterative Violence: English (mis?)Translations of Modao Zushi and Chen Qing Ling" by Chant Y. Ng

Describe your topic/chapter in one sentence/one meme/140 characters.

A work by any other translation would NOT smell as sweet!!! In fact!!!!

What drew you to this topic?

Hi yes it's me, your pal cyan, you may know me from such hit posts as 8k words of rage-crying about the translation of 知己 as soulmates (which is about translation as violence), or maybe that other one about translation as violence (shockingly, it's really about translation as violence), or perhaps even that other other one about how one might translate Lan Xichen's title— (you know, I think this one is also about translation as violence)

If there’s one thing you hope the fandom takes away from your article, what would it be?

I hope that people think harder about how impossible it is to translate a text, and that they choose to extend more grace and compassion to authors and translators alike. A translation is not a window but a painting. Also, I'm manifesting better pay and respect for the work of translation into the cosmos. Please consider this a memo I am posting on the great message board of the universe. Thank you.

What is your MDZS/CQL origin story? (i.e. how did you come to this text?)

Started watching, made some gifs, read the book. Had a breakdown. Bon appetit.

Favorite adaptation, if any?

Audio drama! The love, care and effort put into it continues to astound me. Sometimes, to get the sound of a dizi hitting the ground, you gotta throw a dizi on the ground, y'know?

If you were isekai-ed into MDZS/CQL, what sect affiliation would you choose and why?

Please let me live my life in peace, I am but a feeble scholar.

Most compelling relationship in the text?

Twin Jades!!!!

Chaotic one-sentence pitch to get your friends into MDZS/CQL?

*gripping you tightly by the shoulders* don't

If you could ask MXTX one question, what would it be?

你最近怎么样啊？

Anything to say to potential readers of the collection?

Thanks for checking us out! It's been a wild and unpredictable (four-year!!) ride but everyone worked very hard on their parts. Means a lot even if you're just here for our little promo. :) If you'd like a copy of my contribution for classroom use, please do reach out!

You can find Chant (cyan) here on Tumblr @pumpkinpaix.

(FAQ) (all posts on Catching Chen Qing Ling)

#MDZS #CQL #The Untamed #Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation #Catching Chen Qing Ling #CQL academic collection #CQL CFP #Chen Qing Ling #Mo Dao Zu Shi #pick up what we're putting down!!!!!#mine #mymeta #CQL meta #MDZS meta

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queerlyloud · 1 year ago

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To continue my random intermittent mxtx posting binges, I am once again sozzled and watching cql and I just noticed something I've never realized before and it punched me in the solar plexus. So we all remember the scene where Wei Wuxian gives Wen Qing the special satchet to protect Wen Ning, and we see how she hold it in her hands and lightly caresses it, right before the camera cuts away to Jiang Wanyin BUYING HER A GIFT.

MAJOR CQL/MDZS SPOILERS AHEAD!!!

Okay, so we know that Jiang Wanyin and Wei Wuxian are narrative foils in a lot of ways but one way I never noticed was that they even juxtapose how Wei Wuxian and Jiang Wanyin each desire to befriend Wen Qing and how they approach that with a gift. Wei Wuxian's attempt to befriend Wen Qing is so overtly unsexual that I never even realized these two scenes were side by side so we can see the differences in how they view and approach Wen Qing. Neither of them know her yet, but they both want to for different reasons. So I want to do a quick side-by-side comparison and breakdown of how the gift giving foreshadowed the entirety of each character's arcs with Wen Qing.

1. The Initiative of Each Approach:

1a. Wei Wuxian approached Wen Qing in the chamber where she was tending her sick brother. He went out of his way and made the actual real effort to visit and speak to her about her brother and had even thought enough about doing it beforehand to prepare a handmade gift specifically for her brother. This required a lot of thought and action already, and he doesn't even know if she'll give him the chance to know them yet. He's already investing real time and energy into a potential relationship with them.

1b. Jiang Wanyin's awakened interest was caused by a chance encounter, and the effort he makes is by chance, too, at a time that is convenient to him since he was already strolling in the market. He did have to work up the courage to approach the stall and buy the comb, but he is so mortified and worried about how other people might see him that he dithers long enough for us to not even see him actually purchase the comb. Like all his future efforts with Wen Qing, he will only do what is convenient and will only do it where it is invisible and no one can say anything to him about it. When it comes to how other people see him, he waits too long and thus loses his chance.

2. The Motivation of Each Approach:

2a. Wei Wuxian is not interested in Wen Qing for her own sake. Instead, he is concerned about her younger brother being ill and in the middle of a brewing conflict. Wei Wuxian looked at Wen Ning, saw an innocent young man in trouble, and decided that there was no other recourse than to offer his aid to the boy's more world wise elder sister with whom he could work to protect Wen Ning. Wei Wuxian may have poked at Wen Qing while she was poking around where she shouldn't have been on the back hill, but what ultimately drove him to seek her approval was the desire to save her brother.

2b. Jiang Wanyin's interest, on the other hand, is purely in Wen Qing, the pretty and talented young doctor. He purchases a comb in her colors, an aesthetic choice that showed that he recognized her background, and in a shape (the comb itself) that expressed romantic interest. His interest was only ever in Wen Qing, never in anyone that belonged to her.

3. The Ultility of Each Approach:

3a. Wei Wuxian's gift is a functional item that he himself took the time to handmake specifically to serve a purpose that is important to Wen Qing. Again, he had to think about what would be useful to them, gather the materials, craft it, and then approach them to offer it with the full understanding that the gift might be refused.

3b. Jiang Wanyin did what any normal teenager with a crush would do and saw a thing that reminded him of his crush and bought it for her with no idea if it would be useful to her. I cannot emphasize how normal and healthy this perfectly average teenage behavior was, I'll give this one to Jiang Wanyin, 100/10, you are living the teenage experience, good job, king, so proud of you for this. But it was, unfortunately, not the correct approach for Wen Qing who is already a traumatized war hostage in her own sect at this point (Wei Wuxian and Wen Qing's complementary instinctive trauma bonding is a topic for another post).

4. The Reception of Each Approach:

4a. Although she was suspicious and afraid, Wen Qing still ended up accepting Wei Wuxian's gift because, even if she didn't yet know where she would end up during the war, Wei Wuxian still managed to convince her even in that one interaction that he only wanted to help her younger brother. Wen Qing had her brother continue to carry that protective item even after he died.

4b. It is important to note that Wen Qing did not reject Jiang Wanyin's attempt outright. She gave him time and chances to prove that his gift was more than it seemed, that it could mean something more than just a gifted comb. Ultimately, because Jiang Wanyin fails to rise to the opportunities Wen Qing allows him, she ends up rejecting his gift because in the end, whatever feelings the comb represented meant nothing when they were not backed by action.

5. The Conclusion of Each Approach:

5a. From the beginning, Wei Wuxian acted in the interest of people under Wen Qing's protection. He worked alongside her to protect the people she loved all the way to the end, just like he gave Wen Ning the gift that remained with him until and beyond his death.

5b. Jiang Wanyin hesitated to take action on Wen Qing's behalf because he was too afraid of what others would think of him. He thought only of Wen Qing, giving her a gift that was just for her and generally aesthetic rather than functional. No matter how real the feelings or good the intentions, the gift was useless to her and she rejected it outright once she knew that for sure.

Ultimately, the way to Wen Qing's heart, for better or worse, has always been her people, and Wei Wuxian, with no other motives or intentions, helped her protect them from the very first day of their friendship and continued to do so long after she left the world. And the way they foreshadowed all of that with just those two scenes is so cool, 100000000/10, will watch this show smashed again and again and again.

#mine #mxtx meta #mdzs meta #cql meta #the untamed #cql #wei wuxian #jiang wanyin #wen qing #wen ning #the symbolism and foreshadowing inherent in gift giving #i love this stuff so much #accidental poll at the bottom btw #i accidentally clicked the poll button while typing and couldnt figure out how to erase it #ah well

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korpikorppi · 2 years ago

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Some thoughts on the origins of Jin Guangyao's sword, Hensheng, in the Untamed

Saw this excellent set of gifs from ep23 by @zelkam and went "Wait! Wait wait wait. That's a soft sword!"

So I went to check ep23 and indeed, Meng Yao kills Wen Ruohan with a soft sword:

Then I recalled (been a while too long since I last rewatched these episodes 😅) that this is actually confirmed by Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao's discussion during the victory banquet (in ep23):

JGY: You seemed to want to say something to me as we were greeting rach other.

WWX: It's nothing. Just that the weapon you used to kill Wen Ruohan on that day of the Sunshot Campaign seemed to be a flexible blade. Why doesn't Young Master Jin carry it today?

JGY: Young Master Wei, sorry to have made (it) a show. It was just a random blade I picked up. Later, as I found out it had dark energy, I threw it away.

(As a side note, how observant Wei Wuxian is! He was exhausted from using the Tiger Seal, choked by Wen Ruohan, about to lose consciousness, and yet he noticed that!)

Yeah, right. We all believe you, Jin Guangyao 🙄. Soft swords (rare as they are) just tend to lie around. And that soft sword looks very - very - similar to Hensheng:

In ep23, the blade has fittings that are clearly Wen, with dark-tarnished metal parts and a dark-red handle:

And as we see in ep41, for example, Hensheng has white, gold and green fittings that are very clearly Jin, as befitting Jin Guangyao's status.

But fittings can easily be changed, and the overall similarity is so great that it is quite clear (or at least I am convinced) that it is the same blade (and as already mentioned, soft swords are not that common). I am also quite convinced that it was not "just a random blade" he picked up.

If that is so, when did Meng Yao acquire the sword? Did he acquire it at some point after his banishment from Unclean Realm? Or did he acquire it during his time in Nightless City, a hidden sword for a last line of defence in an enemy stronghold? Or, was it a gift from Wen Ruohan?

As I mentioned, soft swords are not that common and high-class spiritual swords do not come cheap, so it is unlikely that Meng Yao would have been able to acquire one after his banisment, when his means must have been quite limited. It is more feasible that he could have acquired one sometime during his stay in the Nightless City, but I think I am most intriqued by the last possibility. Meng Yao seemed to have gained a high status and a position as some kind of advisor or right-hand man to Wen Ruohan, so it is feasible that he gifted the sword to his servant. This would be supported, firstly, by the custom made Wen fittings (no standard fittings for that type of blade!) and, secondly, by Jin Guangyao's mention that the sword had "dark energy" (translated sometimes as the sword being sinister) and by his eagerness to downplay the whole thing as "just a random sword I threw away" (can you just imagine Nie Mingjue's reaction to that piece of information in the aftermath of the Sunshot Campaign...).

Also, I have always found Hensheng (恨生, Hènshēng), to hate/regret life, to be a bit peculiar name for a cultivator's blade (even for Jin Guangyao's blade), but if the origin of the blade would indeed lie here, it would add an entire new dimension to why Jin Guangyao chose to name it so. Or was the blade named for him?

So in the end, if what I am speculating here is right, Wen Ruohan had his own weapons turned against him, in more ways than one.

And as an end note, there is no mention about the origin of the blade in the MDZS wiki, so it is not mentioned in the novel? Anyone remember if there is anything implied? Also, Hensheng definitely is a soft sword in The Untamed, contrary to what is written in the wiki.

#oh look! it's me rambling about swords again #jin guangyao #meng yao #hensheng #wen ruohan #theuntameddaily #the untamed swords #the untamed #cql #mdzs #meta #cql meta #random late night ramblings #mine

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